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 Congratulations guys

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Umezono



Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 5:27 pm

id like to drop my two cents here.

anything released for mugen is open source due to the nature of its license. credit is a golden stadard by which the community functions, but its really in no way required.

im not seeing the issue here as ax did credit verz and loganir for the base. i see plenty ofcredited spriteswaps here. but my overall point is, credits nice but is not required for this engine.

please do not ban and start problems with ax over this. this was loganirs decision alone. nobody was pointing a gun to his head.

if he wanted his stuff to be kept under lock and key, he should not have released it. or kept it private. either way you all should calm down please.
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Beto



Posts : 547
Join date : 2012-11-28

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 5:44 pm

@luciangarude wrote:
@Beto wrote:
I tired to tell you, but you opted for the old talk, "The characters are Marvel Capcom and etc .." Goodbye She Hulk, Thor, wonder woman, hope you're happy

Special thanks to Ax, remember him, remember that they will never play with Shehulk.

you forgot the mccready warmachine, loganir got permission of mccready to finish and release the warmachine 7 years of waiting in the last year we received this wonderful news to come an idiot and destroy the dream.

I knew that, but loganir had asked me secrecy about it at the time
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Arkady



Posts : 1364
Join date : 2012-05-01
Age : 36
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 6:04 pm

@Umezono wrote:
id like to drop my two cents here.

anything released for mugen is open source due to the nature of its license. credit is a golden stadard by which the community functions, but its really in no way required.

im not seeing the issue here as ax did credit verz and loganir for the base. i see plenty ofcredited spriteswaps here. but my overall point is, credits nice but is not required for this engine.

please do not ban and start problems with ax over this. this was loganirs decision alone. nobody was pointing a gun to his head.

if he wanted his stuff to be kept under lock and key, he should not have released it. or kept it private. either way you all should calm down please.

completely correct, but of course this is the way that the internet is used
we as mugen creators have an community code of respect, some follow it guidelines, moreso to verz and loganir they live by it, swear by it, and now retire by it

I find what Ax has done regarding that wip, pretty bad, and yes banning him sets precedence, to folks that shouldn't be bullied by those who threaten retirement, forcing the public to mob against them, and yes it's their decision to retire, and yet still all could have been avoided, by not using a creators work without permission, an obvious and oblivious rule Ax doesn't follow or acknowledge,

is it murder? no, are we upset about it?, yes, can we frown upon it and move on?........ or is every mugen creator and fan or forum member going to choose sides and spit at each other, till we get our precious way,

mugen forums are a joke, I'm only here to help those, who want help and have the sternness to see a wip though to it's completion, (obviously wips that I want to see a reality, otherwise why would i)
no mugen site is ever going to be perfect, nor anyone member or admin or guest, their will always be antagonists, we have rules, we can either follow them, or be cast out by our peers

what I don't want to see, are threats, that bullying, I don't care if hitler is the cause of this drama
you bully, you're breaking this sites rules of respect

shame to see the some of the best creators give up and retire, or leave the site, all cause of a worthless cause, and thus it reflects poorly on this site
respect is common sense, permissions are common sense, credits are common sense
artists (especially mugen artists) should get a right to permit others to copy their work
that to me makes common sense, at the very least credits

but this is just my view, I cannot ban someone for not following my views, (even if I want to badly)

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Umezono



Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 6:55 pm

arkady, i sympathize with your view.

but i think mugen is very much in the spirit of fan art, so if we are to critically view ax's actions in using these sprites without permission, we would also have to look at loganir's use of electro/thor/whatever else's visage in creating these sprites.

its no secret we as a community have discussed this time and time again. the simple answer is unless your material is 100% original you really cant have it both ways.

and even then, with something like MUGEN you might not be able to defend your original content. if 100% original code can be used to create edited works (think Race's uses of GM and Cross Cat's Tizoc code in his work) without express permission, I would infer that sprites released in sff format are also fair game.

i also believe that credit here was not an issue- ax credited the source of the bases. loganirs issue was ultimately not with credit. he just didnt like the fact his sprites were being used for an inferior product.

its a tough reality with this engine. im glad youre so reasonable about this arkady.
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O Ilusionista



Posts : 713
Join date : 2012-05-16
Location : Brazil

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 7:15 pm

Umezono,  I have nothing against you. In fact I like you. But I need to say two things :

1-the credit is not mandatory is valid only for MFG,  because many places doesn't agree with that. And, it's not mandatory to say, but MFG does not controls or dictates what people does in Mugen.

2- I think you should be more... Consistent when you talk, sorry.  Here you wrote politely,  but at MFG...

Quote :
I dont give two fucks, that thread can be used to wave your hate boners for ax. release threads are not the place for baby drama and cathartic therapy sessions.

As you said there,  if you don't agree,  why do you post about it?

Extra note: the issue it's not only the green Ranger sprites, it's way bigger and has a lot of background events involved.
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Umezono



Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 7:28 pm

O Ilusionista,

you obviously are a great friend of Loganir but, the permission rule is a general standard in MUGEN. Forums that ban people over this "creators rights" nonsense are firmly in the past and a minority. And I cannot remember IMT or CrusaderCast banning or restricting under any such rules in recent memory, even though they often host/showcase works that would violate this standard.

There is no legal requirement that you need express permission and creditting for work released for this engine. Its an open source work.

Secondly, if you are so against this notion of open source/sharing, would your principles disallow you from posting on MUGENguild as well?

Third of all, that quote is not only contextless but completely irrelevant. I was moderating a thread that was being unfairly derailed to gang up on Ax's personality.

I don't understand the third question, or understand what my posts consistency has to do with this.

I also don't understand how you can in good conscience take a stand here but not elsewhere.

MUGEN is open source, its not something you can hope to keep your work under your complete dominion. Being in the scene as long as you have, you should know this.

Really, I expected better of you.
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Demonkai



Posts : 30
Join date : 2014-08-17
Location : brooklyn

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 7:41 pm

smdh Another huge loss. another great creator gone....
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Umezono



Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 7:55 pm

ax, your reputation unfortunately precedes you. its not a good idea to riff on loganir in public when people so obviously will not want to listen to your side.
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Beto



Posts : 547
Join date : 2012-11-28

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 7:59 pm

Ax, with all due respect you should seek psychological help, you make a farce like this and now wants to be a victim? Still putting all the blame on Verz and Loganir?

You say you will emerge other talents, I do not think so, maybe loganir is the best of all of us, Verz the most talented spriter, passionate shaper

It would be enough to use the Cyclops Capcom, but not, you need to fight through this world using his small talk, that the characters do not belong to match any of us

How can you talk of Ego?
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O Ilusionista



Posts : 713
Join date : 2012-05-16
Location : Brazil

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 8:09 pm

Again,  the point it's not only about the permission. As I said,  there are a lot of things from the backstages that you aren't aware,  like doing things and targeting people on propose,  double/fake accounts for stalking,  insulting,  threating and other things that should be kept private.

Quote :
Secondly, if you are so against this notion of open source/sharing, would your principles disallow you from posting on MUGENguild as well?

If I would stop posting there by any issue I had with MFG,  I should stopped like 10 years ago. I never stated that I am against the open-source concept,  don't put words on my mouth. But I think that we should have some rules.

Quote :
I don't understand the third question, or understand what my posts consistency has to do with this.

Because of your tone. I understand your point and your role there,  but it just sounded strange to see how different you tone were in both foruns.

Quote :
I also don't understand how you can in good conscience take a stand here but not elsewhere.

But I took a stand on other foruns and you know it. But if you mean why I haven't talked about this at MFG... Because I already saw this movie,  thanks.

Quote :
Really, I expected better of you
I can say the same,  but I think we both can live with that.  C'est la vie.

Anyway I am done with this topic here.  There is a topic about this at IMT anyone can reach me there.

Sorry for the typos, I am on my mobile

@AX - I agree with Beto. You have some mental disorder and should seek for medical help.
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Umezono



Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 8:41 pm

damn ilu, how does anything in his post constitute a mental disorder. also how is he playing the victim.

you people need to critically examine the actual events. people are arguing on multiple levels of abstraction here. making sweeping statements about ax when on an adjudicative level, ax did nothing wrong and his post on what went down proves he didnt actually do anything wrong. he credited the creators when using the base.

if you think that ax should not have used the base because loganir and verz didnt want to allow people to, you are opening doors to a lot of dark possibilities we have seen with the whole creator rights thing.

i do believe its hypocritical youd leave only mmv and not mfg which willingly posts and allows character edits even w/o express permission.

you cnat change the subject here. the crux of this argument, if you can call it that, is creator rights. no forum supports it. all that stuff ax did behind the scenes, maybe thats all bannable. but right now, what he did with the green ranger isnt.
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O Ilusionista



Posts : 713
Join date : 2012-05-16
Location : Brazil

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 9:33 pm

@Umezono wrote:
damn ilu, how does anything in his post constitute a mental disorder. also how is he playing the victim.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Quote :

i do believe its hypocritical youd leave only mmv and not mfg which willingly posts and allows character edits even w/o express permission.

Again, you don't know the whole picture but still insist in talking about it. My reasons are personal. It's not only because Ax (but yeah it had some influence) it's a sum of things. You are connecting the dots you want to. And it can be my crappy English, but it seems that my presence at MFG do bother you, or I am wrong?

Quote :
all that stuff ax did behind the scenes, maybe thats all bannable. but right now, what he did with the green ranger isnt.

Sweet Lord of heaven, now you are starting to understand Smile Again, it's not green range issue alone, it's a sum of things. That was only the water droplet on the full glass of water.
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O Ilusionista



Posts : 713
Join date : 2012-05-16
Location : Brazil

PostSubject: Re: Congratulations guys   February 2nd 2015, 9:37 pm

Quote :
Well I adjusted his Thor for mine, and I changed a little of the gameplay because I enjoyed a modified version.
That is bullshit! You had removed all creators credits from all files, even the contributors names... Even changed the ending and removed all the credits.

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