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 What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?

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shags2dope



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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 21st 2017, 8:50 pm

Im sorry but your stance is my main issue and i do think you used logansam's quote out of context. He was saying that he wishes for more ppl like himself to work hard and produce quality. YOU saying its stupid to expect quality from amateurs is ridiculous, saying you dont need to improve and that its not helpful to tell you to improve is what attracts rude behavior....If you KNOW its not good work, you cannot expect others to say nice things about it. ONCE AGAIN, i think we should all be civil. If you think a character is trash say why exactly it is trash, instead of "it sucks"

I respect everyone, from the lurkers to "Easy way" to the "Professionals" to the "God tier" but what i dont respect is ignorance to a real issue. Do you think mugen would be so much fun ALL THESE YEARS later, if everyone who started off was just taking the easy way and said i dont need to improve because im not a pro im not getting paid. Do you see how that is a cop out and a rather pathetic one at that?

If you respect the HARD work others put in, do the same by putting your best foot forward. If you SUCK at sprites ask for help or find a tutorial. If you can sprite your ass but cant code, find a buddy to help you. But dont just throw junk together and put it out there hoping for baseless praise and when the inevitable Negativity comes up be all "Hey get out of here troll, take your hate speech somewhere else
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O Ilusionista

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 21st 2017, 9:03 pm

Just my two cents here, since Borewood is such nice person:

Quote :
Sorry you cannot get/give both constructive criticism and destructive criticism.........
First, there is not such thing as constructive or destructive criticism. There is CRITICISM. If its constructive or destructive its up to you.

Sure, a reply like "ITS A TRASH" its not a good way to talk with people. You have to take what is good from it and move on.
Its a DEADLY sin to ask for "only constructive criticism". Because people will think you are "light skinned", too sensitive and they will need to "step on eggs" like we say here (to skating on thin ice), because they will need to held their hands when giving you criticism.

Many people post things publicly but only want people which agrees with them. Its not logic. at all.

And what happens next? People will start TO IGNORE YOU. I do this with a lot of people.
The WORST THING for a creator is to be ignored.

Quote :
A) being a MUGEN e-bashing/e-haunting/e-trolling/e-bullying giver to try to fill up your e-pride and to be disliked by most MUGEN authors/creators No ;
B) being a gentle and fair MUGEN Feedback Giver (provided that you need to be qualified to be one according to my top post up there) who is liked by most MUGEN authors/creators

Don't focus your work on if people will work you or not. Focus on to make a GOOD WORK. And people will like you. Or not, its life. it happens all the time. There are people who like me and my work, some people like only my work but not myself and people which doesn't like both. It's life.
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varo_hades

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 21st 2017, 10:40 pm

Much drama for feedback?, I think that you can put but in the end is the decision of the author to apply or not, and if you want to keep out the problems, can be sended by PM.
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Doom

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 21st 2017, 10:45 pm

@shags2dope wrote:
Im sorry but your stance is my main issue and i do think you used logansam's quote out of context. He was saying that he wishes for more ppl like himself to work hard and produce quality.

I put Logansam's comment here, so I do not do the 2 threads with the same theme. I have known to my friend since his beginning. My comment is supporting the comment from Logansam. I appreciate it a lot.

@shags2dope wrote:
YOU saying its stupid to expect quality from amateurs is ridiculous, saying you dont need to improve and that its not helpful to tell you to improve is what attracts rude behavior....If you KNOW its not good work, you cannot expect others to say nice things about it. ONCE AGAIN, i think we should all be civil. If you think a character is trash say why exactly it is trash, instead of "it sucks"


I did not say it's stupid to wait for the rookies to improve. I said that it is stupid to force someone to improve, if that someone is not interested in doing that. For example me. I challenge you:  writes 10,000,000 comments saying that I should improves the sprites of my Question ... What a Face

HERE !!
http://mugenmultiverse.fanbb.net/t7167-the-question-dc-comics


@shags2dope wrote:
I respect everyone, from the lurkers to "Easy way" to the "Professionals" to the "God tier" but what i dont respect is ignorance to a real issue. Do you think mugen would be so much fun ALL THESE YEARS later, if everyone who started off was just taking the easy way and said i dont need to improve because im not a pro im not getting paid. Do you see how that is a cop out and a rather pathetic one at that?


My comment about respect is not directed at anyone in particular. I just wanted to remember that. I do not talk about you.


@shags2dope wrote:
If you respect the HARD work others put in, do the same by putting your best foot forward. If you SUCK at sprites ask for help or find a tutorial. If you can sprite your ass but cant code, find a buddy to help you. But dont just throw junk together and put it out there hoping for baseless praise and when the inevitable Negativity comes up be all "Hey get out of here troll, take your hate speech somewhere else


Very congruous your comment. So if I admire MARADONA or MESSI, I can not play soccer with my friends. Whats Next ?? Should I quit my job to train Futbol/Soccer ??

_______________

Notes:

♦ I hate Futbol/Soccer ... XD
♦ Probably I do not express myself well, or I do not interpret their comments well. Speak Spanish. I apologize in that case.
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Doom

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 21st 2017, 10:52 pm


Another important thing:
You can say very negative things without offending. Even encouraging to improve to who does not want to do it. But social relations are not given to everyone. I suppose it will be a question of education or love of neighbor.
Again: I'm not talking about you. I just wanted to post my ideas on this thread, which was created for that.
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borewood2013

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 5:59 am

More responses from me here Arrow :

@shags2dope:
>> so now the guy shows up.....responds to your "Support" when you didnt give any feedback either other than Haters gonna hate.....see how that is not productive eitherr??
I normally don't give feedback to sprite works because I don't know Jack about spriting at all,....MUGEN code-wise I have been providing many from time to time, both in the MUGEN Releases section and the MUGEN Help section, again, you didn't read about them probably because you were not interested in paying attention to the MUGEN things that do not interest you. Neutral

@Doom:
>> We just need fun and sharing, in an atmosphere of respect.
Yes, this is the MUGEN World Peace I have been longing for... yes
Yes too, just imagine that, your parents are doctors, your brothers & sisters are doctors too, but you don't want to be a doctor (something lower than a doctor), yet, your doctor family members try so hard to convince you to be like them -- to become a doctor -- doctors are awesome but not everyone wants to be a doctor due to many different reasons.

@shags2dope:
>> The best CREATIONS in mugen are crafted from those that took feedback and worked accordingly
So this is your MUGEN Utopia in which all MUGEN contents must be top-notch quality, which is fine to me. yes
And, my MUGEN Utopia is simply a MUGEN online place that can offer some MUGEN Peace -- no more e-bashing/e-haunting/e-trolling/e-bullying bad deeds -- which is not fine to you? Question
Look here, you said there are bad guys and good guys, I can also say there are bad works and good works.
Without bad guys there are no good guys; likewise, without bad works there no good works.
If you want to turn all bad works to good works then it can be as hard as trying to turn all bad guys to good guys.
>> If you think a character is trash say why exactly it is trash, instead of "it sucks"
You are totally correct about this of your statement and I buy it very much.  And this is the main problem in all MUGEN online places -- they just keep doing their e-bashing/e-haunting/e-trolling/e-bullying bad deeds on someone they target to, by saying this kind of "your work is shit", "you should stop doing mugen chars", "you have no skills", "throw your character in the trash" empty accuses, without going into any concrete MUGEN details, this is the thing I dislike the most. Very Mad
>> Since you keep mentioning 2004. You will recall back in those days simple sprite swaps or pallete swaps were frowned up.
2004 times there were not that much resources and materials compared to those of nowadays' out there for massive swaps, and not everybody was into MUGEN content making (DOM-DownloadOnlyMembers outnumbered authors/creators very much).  MUGEN makers in those times focused on being the so-called "MUGEN Elites", and swaps were not the "MUGEN Elites" hated the most, rather, "MUGEN Thieves" were the "MUGEN Elites"'s main MUGEN concern.  Do you remember how and why Orochi Herman coded his JJBA Shadow Dio in a MUGEN way like that? Question
>> Your friends and family are gonna support it no matter WHAT!!! But once you put yourself out there to the world it is open to criticism so if you dont sing well and someone is rude and says STOP. That is not.....hating nor is it bullying.
Hey but still, please remember this of your previous MUGEN statement: "Well only 2 of those are actual trolling....throw your characters in the trash and stop doing chars."  Trolling is better than hating/bullying you meant right? Question


@O Ilusionista:
>> Just my two cents here, since Borewood is such nice person:
In fact I am not a nice person if you recall all my uncontrollable reactions to MUGEN Feedback since the year of mid-2010.
I respect 0.14 cents of truly yours because your MUGEN age is older than mine by at least 4-5 MUGEN years.
Now the subtracted 0.06 cents are explained here:
>> First, there is not such thing as constructive or destructive criticism. There is CRITICISM. If its constructive or destructive its up to you.
Yes there are.  The MUGEN language and MUGEN tone/attitude can make a difference.
constructive criticism: "the feet your the sprites are misaligned", "the perspective of this pose is wrong", "there is a bug in the coding", "you should change this to get a better effect"
destructive criticism: "your work is shit", "you should stop doing mugen chars", "you have no skills", "throw your character in the trash"
This is my MUGEN meaning of constructive/destructive criticism if you say it is up to me (to anybody else it can of course mean something else).
>> People will start TO IGNORE YOU. I do this with a lot of people. The WORST THING for a creator is to be ignored.
To other MUGEN authors/creators, it may apply.
Unfortunately (and/or ironically) this is what I want since my 2013 MUGEN return.
I have been fed up with long-years of e-bashing/e-haunting/e-trolling/e-bullying by more than too many MUGEN Pro's and MUGEN dudes. bomb
For now it can be the best MUGEN case to me if all the ****wood haters can just pretend I and my MUGEN stuff are not existing, like you said, can they just leave me alone by ignoring anything and everything about me and my MUGEN stuff?  Question   No, they cannot release my poor MUGEN soul, and they love to continue to hear my MUGEN tragic scream when they keep trapping me  in their little invisible MUGEN torture chamber no matter where I am on the Great Internet.  So if one day they might get tired of e-torturing me by ignoring my MUGEN existence, then I will surely thank them a million times ilu :
- don't announce any MUGEN news about me and my MUGEN stuff, both in non-MMV forums and YouTube;
- don't put me and my MUGEN stuff into their MUGEN database(s)/collection(s);
- don't show me and my MUGEN stuff in their MUGEN screenshots and MUGEN videos.
For MUGEN people like Staubhold who gives only constructive MUGEN criticism, I see them as a MUGEN bonus Like a Star @ heaven , while I still consider that "no-comments-at-all is 1000% better than one (1) "piss-you-off" comment."
>> Don't focus your work on if people will work you or not. Focus on to make a GOOD WORK. And people will like you.
Good work deserves a main focus indeed.  And, I don't need anybody to like me on the Great Internet. Again to me, "no-comments-at-all is 1000% better than one (1) "piss-you-off" comment."

@black dragon:
>> I agree with you I still don't like you what you done to me and I will never forget it
I don't know what was with you and Big O Ilusionista (and I don't want to know), yet I totally understand how you feel when someone has done some terrible thing to you -- just like me that, I can never forget and forgive what those reckless & heartless MUGEN Pro's and MUGEN dudes have done objection  to me in 2010-2011. pale

@varo_hades:
>> Much drama for feedback?, I think that you can put but in the end is the decision of the author to apply or not, and if you want to keep out the problems, can be sended by PM.
No this is not a MUGEN drama; rather it is a MUGEN feedback discussion.
PMs.....it depends on the MUGEN feedback giver -- if he/she/it wants to try to prove something to the e-world, then it usually goes public.
I guess only close e-friends/e-buddies use PMs for MUGEN feedback......and all the MUGEN feedback I have been getting are all made public........oh well Razz

@Doom:
>> For example me. I challenge you:  writes 10,000,000 comments saying that I should improves the sprites of my Question ... What a Face
It reminds me that I once challenged all those reckless & heartless MUGEN Pro's and MUGEN dudes that they could make better versions of my MUGEN stuff that they kept on e-bashing/e-haunting/e-trolling/e-bullying.... 
>> I hate Futbol/Soccer ...
I love soccer football ...
>> I just wanted to post my ideas on this thread, which was created for that.
Yes, come on, just put all your (everybody's I mean) MUGEN Points/Rants in this MUGEN feedback discussion, hopefully it can make all of you (and I) feel a bit released! Exclamation

@black dragon:
>> I never asked for the character to be perfect I want that character to be that character
There is no perfection in MUGEN.............remember that Great One once said, "all computer software is forever beta"? Question
By the way, interesting Sagat edit!
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Staubhold

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 7:19 am

@borewood2013 wrote:

For MUGEN people like Staubhold who gives only constructive MUGEN criticism, I see them as a MUGEN bonus Like a Star @ heaven , while I still consider that "no-comments-at-all is 1000% better than one (1) "piss-you-off" comment."

You summoned me? eyes rolling

I try to give feedback, criticism & suggestions on creations where I think that it´s appreciated & "worth it", cause it takes time to do that... and you can learn a lot about the work attitude of a author if you test their creations.
Is he experienced or not? Creative? Lazy? Does he "respect" the source game? No, that doesn´t always means "source accurate".
Is the author very young/inexperienced I tend to not give criticism. Most of them see criticism as something bad, even if it´s fully supportive.

I personally don´t like rude or offensive criticism.
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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 7:38 am

@Staubhold wrote:
@borewood2013 wrote:

For MUGEN people like Staubhold who gives only constructive MUGEN criticism, I see them as a MUGEN bonus Like a Star @ heaven , while I still consider that "no-comments-at-all is 1000% better than one (1) "piss-you-off" comment."

You summoned me? eyes rolling

I try to give feedback, criticism & suggestions on creations where I think that it´s appreciated & "worth it", cause it takes time to do that... and you can learn a lot about the work attitude of a author if you test their creations.
Is he experienced or not? Creative? Lazy? Does he "respect" the source game? No, that doesn´t always means "source accurate".
Is the author very young/inexperienced I tend to don´t give criticism. Most of them see criticism as something bad, even if it´s fully supportive.

I personally don´t like rude or offensive criticism. 

Yes, hope you won't mind....please.....
And here too (the post that started it all since yesterday): http://mugenmultiverse.fanbb.net/t9885p15-falcon-project#118094

In my MUGEN book you are one (1) of the best long-time MUGEN Feedback Givers.  yes
You know how constructive criticism and destructive criticism in MUGEN work for different MUGEN people.
You are one of those who know how to spell the English word "RESPECT" and walk the word when it comes to MUGEN Feedback Giving.  ilu


Last edited by borewood2013 on April 22nd 2017, 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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borewood2013

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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 7:45 am

Oh forgot to include a very important MUGEN point :

A very important point is missing a concerned talk up there, which is "MUGEN bias" by those reckless & heartless MUGEN e-trollers :
skhsato123 mentioned: "I do not know why this person discourage me in every WIP..."
Do you see this -- every time you/I/he/she/it post(s) something (doesn't matter it is good or not-so-good), those reckless & heartless MUGEN e-trollers can just keep saying bad things about you and your posted stuff, like no tomorrow, like they are watching you 24/7 for getting the chance to tell the world to try to prove something -- ? Such "MUGEN bias" is greatly due the the "haters gonna hate" e-social fact, which is one (1) of the biggest causes of all e-conflicts.
Therefore, skhsato123 I fully understand how you feel about that "being e-haunted every time I post something" simply because e-ghosts love e-haunting everywhere.   Even after you have already left that e-hell the e-ghosts can still keep track of you and keep doing their bad e-deeds! 
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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 7:50 am

@borewood2013 wrote:
Oh forgot to include a very important MUGEN point :

A very important point is missing a concerned talk up there, which is "MUGEN bias" by those reckless & heartless MUGEN e-trollers :
skhsato123 mentioned: "I do not know why this person discourage me in every WIP..."
Do you see this -- every time you/I/he/she/it post(s) something (doesn't matter it is good or not-so-good), those reckless & heartless MUGEN e-trollers can just keep saying bad things about you and your posted stuff, like no tomorrow, like they are watching you 24/7 for getting the chance to tell the world to try to prove something -- ? Such "MUGEN bias" is greatly due the the "haters gonna hate" e-social fact, which is one (1) of the biggest causes of all e-conflicts.
Therefore, skhsato123 I fully understand how you feel about that "being e-haunted every time I post something" simply because e-ghosts love e-haunting everywhere.   Even after you have already left that e-hell the e-ghosts can still keep track of you and keep doing their bad e-deeds! 


i thank you borewood for your full support and thank mmv hosting me , ppl like you , doom, volz keep me try to improve
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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 8:15 am

This is the reason why i decided to be part of this great community:


" Rules "
"Feedback is not only welcomed here, it is encouraged. And we thank any of you that take the time to offer it. But at no time does that give you license to insult our community or our members when you do so. We have a rule about respect at all times and we expect all of our members to follow it, including when giving feedback."


I found in other forums "Feedback comments" which becomes in rude or offensive criticism, negative critics, insults and things like that...unfortunately IMO this is sad, because in this World (mugenworld around the web) all we share a "passion" for figthing videogames & mugen so the creators and fans have filled with stages, screenpacks, characters and add ones and even one image sprite edits never seen before...its like a new world for old & new games.

I know many of the first generation creators have ratired, or have gone (Like REU Sad ), but his work remain as a legacy for we and future Mugen "Inheritors". So we have to impulse the new talents.

We cannot force someone to improve his(her) talent, but we can encourage them to become better with a good critic, because a rude or  offensive critic "Kills" the creator´s spirit.

Someone told me this time ago:
"...The knowledge its worthless if not shares it...". Here in the forum my brothers Mazemerald, Doom, Borewood2013, Bam77, Chuchoryu, etc..(just for name some ot them) have shared his knowledge with me and his feedback have made me a better mugen creator (just search my early works  lol! ) So i try to do the same as they do it for me, if someone need help Im always be ready to help.

For me, what makes you a good mugen Feedback giver its to give your comment AND explain HOW TO (if you have the knowledge or the abilities) to improve his (her) work.

Please dont kill the new talent spirit...This is the worst SIN of a member of MUGEN community.

Your Friend LESSARD
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PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N feedback giver?   April 22nd 2017, 8:31 am

@borewood2013 wrote:

Yes, hope you won't mind....please.....

No, was just surprised.  Wink

@borewood2013 wrote:

In my MUGEN book you are one (1) of the best long-time MUGEN Feedback Givers.  yes
You know how constructive criticism and destructive criticism in MUGEN work for different MUGEN people.
You are one of those who know how to spell the English word "RESPECT" and walk the word when it comes to MUGEN Feedback Giving.  ilu

Thank you very much.
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