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 What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?

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XXDreamBrotherXX



Posts : 842
Join date : 2012-06-15
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?   June 5th 2014, 8:05 am

@Erroratu wrote:
Then just set it so he doesn't appear on arcade mode if his AI bugs you that much.
My most favorite character is Kliff Undersn by Muteki and he has no AI at all.
You could also always wait,because if the character is really good but has no AI he will probably get an AI patch by someone else(Like Onodera Ren by Daniel999999 for an example)

Fair enough, though that doesn't make AI completely unnecessary.
How many fighting games are released with chars with poor to no AI?
None...Zero...Zilch

XxDragoulxX
AI is quite complex. Perhaps at first it shouldn't be your main focus, save it until you have at least got your head around the basics. But I do recommend making it a goal for the future to make your "good" mugen char great.
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Chimoru



Posts : 591
Join date : 2012-06-05
Age : 35
Location : Detroit

PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?   June 5th 2014, 8:49 am

@XxDragoulxX wrote:
@XXDreamBrotherXX wrote:
AI and no KFM sounds

that'll be another issue. i need to either find a good site for sound effects or make my own (probably the better route for voice acting if i had a decent mic, but definately not good for everything else lol). anyone got any recommendations for sound sites for mugen? i'd like to ask the same thing with a.i, but i don't think a.i is a thing you can exactly look up and find a good one for any character xD. if it is, i'd love to give it a shot, though :3

I'm pretty good at ripping stuff from other games (though newer systems like PS3 and XBOX360 and above can't really be done) so if you need something, run it by me and I'll see what I can do.

I'd like to give you advice about AI, but I can't.  I'm still new to it myself and don't really understand it.  In the meantime, I've asked others to help me with that until I get the hang of it. So maybe you can try that for your first few projects?  We're a community, we help each other, it what we do.

One thing that I personally can't stand is unaligned and poorly timed sprites in animations.  If, for example, you're making a character and your base was Cyclops, go back and line your sprites up with the Cyclops base.  It makes a world of difference to your character when they are properly aligned and smoothly animated.  Sprites that aren't even so great, look better when the animate smoothly.  Your eye catches things like that.  The key to good work is making sure nobody notices it.  LOL

Another thing is unnaturally colored palettes.  For me, colors that are too bright and when the difference between the lightest shade and a darkest shade is too vast, makes the character look cheaply done in my opinion.  I try to find a picture of the character with my favorite shading, open it in a program like Photoshop, sample the colors to get the RGB values and try to recreate them in Fighter Factory.

Subtle FX are a definite must have too.  Don't ever underestimate the power of both visual and sound FX.  Just like your eyes, your ears can tell when something expected is missing.

I would explain more, but I have to get to work now.  I hope I was helpful and good luck in your project!
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XxDragoulxX



Posts : 43
Join date : 2014-05-30
Age : 23
Location : over there

PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?   June 5th 2014, 12:09 pm

@Chimoru wrote:
@XxDragoulxX wrote:
@XXDreamBrotherXX wrote:
AI and no KFM sounds

that'll be another issue. i need to either find a good site for sound effects or make my own (probably the better route for voice acting if i had a decent mic, but definately not good for everything else lol). anyone got any recommendations for sound sites for mugen? i'd like to ask the same thing with a.i, but i don't think a.i is a thing you can exactly look up and find a good one for any character xD. if it is, i'd love to give it a shot, though :3

I'm pretty good at ripping stuff from other games (though newer systems like PS3 and XBOX360 and above can't really be done) so if you need something, run it by me and I'll see what I can do.

I'd like to give you advice about AI, but I can't.  I'm still new to it myself and don't really understand it.  In the meantime, I've asked others to help me with that until I get the hang of it. So maybe you can try that for your first few projects?  We're a community, we help each other, it what we do.

One thing that I personally can't stand is unaligned and poorly timed sprites in animations.  If, for example, you're making a character and your base was Cyclops, go back and line your sprites up with the Cyclops base.  It makes a world of difference to your character when they are properly aligned and smoothly animated.  Sprites that aren't even so great, look better when the animate smoothly.  Your eye catches things like that.  The key to good work is making sure nobody notices it.  LOL

Another thing is unnaturally colored palettes.  For me, colors that are too bright and when the difference between the lightest shade and a darkest shade is too vast, makes the character look cheaply done in my opinion.  I try to find a picture of the character with my favorite shading, open it in a program like Photoshop, sample the colors to get the RGB values and try to recreate them in Fighter Factory.

Subtle FX are a definite must have too.  Don't ever underestimate the power of both visual and sound FX.  Just like your eyes, your ears can tell when something expected is missing.

I would explain more, but I have to get to work now.  I hope I was helpful and good luck in your project!

It was, actually. thanks for the advice Very Happy i'll make sure to ask around when i get to the sound and A.I part of the project :3
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XxDragoulxX



Posts : 43
Join date : 2014-05-30
Age : 23
Location : over there

PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?   June 5th 2014, 12:20 pm

@Erroratu wrote:
Wanna make a good character?
Have the sprites ready an all and wanna make a MvC2 character, for an example?
Go play MvC2.
Play the game for a long while until you get the grip of how a MvC2 character should play.

Then start making your character(Don't forget to use onion skin while making an .sff file to make sure everything is aligned,also you need to have ALL the required sprites,and don't fuck up when choosing sprite groups)

When making the .AIR file NEVER leave the animation speed at 10.Be sure to make the animation as smooth as possible,don't forget to have a animation after the attack that will make it look like the character is going back to his stance.ALSO,when it comes to CLSNs you need to remember that its always FUNCTIONALITY over REALISM.Your character got hit on his sword and felt pain,so what?Thats just how it is,and how it should be in order to balance stuff out.

Never forget to put Blue CLSNs on projectiles,it is required to make projectiles hit each other.Also,dont ever use more than 3 blue clsns for the body.3 should be max.
Don't forget about Infinite Priority either,Blue CLSNS should always be OVER Red ones so the character can get hit on the leg that he is attacking with.

When making a custom character think of what role do you want him the fill?
Less damage but fast?Slow but good range?Slow with a lot of health?Can get in and out easily? etc.
Its good to find a fighting game character and build your own character based on him.
Also I noticed something you comic fans do a lot is add like 10 projectiles to the character.
When adding custom moves to your character never add 10 lasers and projectiles,like i said above.
1 of the same kind is enough.
You're probably gonna say stuff like WHY DOES DANTE HAVE 2 IN MVC3 THEN
Well,he has a slow one that allows him to run in there safely and control space,while the gun one is there to come out quickly and try to punish enemies that fucked up but are too far,or to just keep pressure,so those 2 do completely 2 different things.
However,having 5 lasers that do completely the same thing is kinda dumb and unnecessary.

Also,this is something that pissed me off,especially when Ax kept claiming that its OK.
INFINITES are a NO NO.Imagine playing a game with your friend and he finds out that crouching low kick can be spammed to ensure 100% victory on his end.Its dumb.
So what if games like UMVC3,HnK and so had infinites,those were not there on purpose.

Lets say something about AI now.
AI is completely unnecessary.
Thats it.
Yes it is kinda nice to have an enemy that gives you a challenge,but holy crap,an AI does not make a character.
If you are worried that your character will be bad because he has no AI then dont worry,AI is something a good character does not need at all.

'Bout the .SND,your character will need some sounds.Any sounds.
Like if you cant find a good voice for Guts from Berserk(Example) then just go and take a random japanese characters .snd who's voice fits him and use it.
While it may not be the best course of action,it definetly is better than having no sound at all.

When it comes to the .cmd dont make the commands WAY too complicated,like F,D,B,D,D,a,b,y.
Also,the longer and more complicated the command is,the higher it should be on the .cmd file.
If you don't do that there might be some problems with the commands.

uhh I think I covered some stuff ,might have missed something here and there

well, that was one hell of a read, lol. i'll make sure of what you said into consideration. sprite grouping is something else that i would like to ask about, but i'll leave that for another topic lol.
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Erroratu



Posts : 903
Join date : 2013-07-14
Age : 19
Location : Bosnia and Hercegovina

PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?   June 5th 2014, 1:07 pm

Sprite groups are explained in Mugen 1.0s and Mugen 1.1s Docs folder.
Also to add to the list up there
Read the Mugen Docs that come with 1.0 and 1.1
They are there for a reason
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borewood2013



Posts : 3127
Join date : 2014-08-11

PostSubject: Re: What makes a good M.U.G.E.N character?   August 17th 2014, 8:48 am

@Chimoru:
>> I'm pretty good at ripping stuff from other games (though newer systems like PS3 and XBOX360 and above can't really be done) so if you need something, run it by me and I'll see what I can do.
Are you good at ripping stuff from 2D Fighter Maker 95 (2DFM95 or just FM95) - NOT 2DFM2K2 - games please?

https://www.google.com.hk/search?biw=1280&bih=499&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=2DFM95&oq=2DFM95&gs_l=img.3...6417.9281.0.9612.6.6.0.0.0.0.73.349.6.6.0....0...1c.1.51.img..5.1.73.8gV4eaejCCI

And the hard-as-heck ones like MAME games?
May I send you some that I find it very hard to rip please?


>> Another thing is unnaturally colored palettes.
I am color-blinded and my MUGEN stuff lacks of palettes and has some wrong colors I believe.
You probably hate my MUGEN stuff when it comes to colors and palettes


>> Subtle FX are a definite must have too.
Games like Ougon Musou Kyoku use FX as selling point, so yes.


About A.I. in MUGEN, my opinion:  super-reflex or human-style.
Super-reflex A.I. with reasonable random/conditional behavior is not hard to make in MUGEN.
Human-style A.I. is extremely hard to make in MUGEN.  I guess the number of lines of MUGEN code of a decent Human-style A.I. can easily be made much bigger than that of the character's operating MUGEN code.  And, IMHO, bosses in MUGEN must need some A.I., for the rest, it doesn't matter to me on the other hand.
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