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 MUGEN group type analysis (credit due to 珂字辈@baidu tieba)

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PostSubject: MUGEN group type analysis (credit due to 珂字辈@baidu tieba)   November 4th 2017, 11:18 am

MUGEN group type analysis (credit due to 珂字辈@baidu tieba) study :

in case imgur not working for you...:

About a couple of years ago I came across with a Chinese MUGEN discussion @baidu tieba about a "MUGEN group type analysis" started by a Chinese MUGEN fan 珂字辈.  Today I feel like posting his post in MMV here.  His post was written in Chinese and since I am a Chinese so it is just so easy for me to manually translate it to English.

珂字辈@baidu tieba once said in his "MUGEN group type analysis" Arrow :


"I have been using MUGEN for about three years, before my passion and power fade out, I think I should write something about MUGEN.  Although some newbies think I am some MUGEN veteran, my MUGEN experience is actually not that great, yet, my ability to gather MUGEN information is OK, and I sometimes can pretend to be a MUGEN veteran by posting some comprehensive MUGEN information."


"1. Outside the MUGEN groups, are people who just have contact with MUGEN for the first time.  To them, it is kind of difficult to understand the concept of MUGEN.  Most of them have had no experience in such a open platform like MUGEN.  At most this group just consider MUGEN a doujin fighting game(s).
- Example groups: bilibili site people know the existence of a MUGEN area but they don't usually visit that MUGEN
                         area, and sometimes they may just ask around about that MUGEN area


"2. People who have seen/heard of some MUGEN works.  But they have never tried MUGEN by themselves, and know nothing about any MUGEN tournaments.  It is because some certain games with "MUGEN" in names have reached a work of excellence and popularity by their standards that these games are kind of mistaken to be all parts of MUGEN itself.
- Example groups: some people in the 千星流月吧 group believe that "游戏王mugen" = MUGEN while it has nothing to do with Elecbyte's MUGEN"


"3. People who love MUGEN tournaments.  These people have litte MUGEN knowledge at all.  They are amazed by MUGEN yet they tend to make mistakes like getting the wrong MUGEN game names and the wrong MUGEN character names.  Some put all focus on a particular MUGEN character, or a few ones, and it can lead to people's conflict as a result of fandom.  They don't actually try out the MUGEN itself until later times.
- Example groups: almost all the MUGEN tournaments fans who give those LIKES/DISLIKES"


"4. Normal-type MUGEN players/fans.  They have understood what MUGEN is about.  They know where to get MUGEN stuff.  Some are able to build their own perfect MUGEN compilation(s).  They are interested in MUGEN stuff which only fits their taste.  They might like MUGEN tournaments and probably the source fighting games where the MUGEN stuff is made from.
- Example groups: me (珂字辈) in 2012-2013"


"5. Doujin fighting game fans.  This statement is kind of misleading though.  In fact to anyone who likes MUGEN, doujin fighting games share the same passion and preference.  Basically these people just love all types of fighting games including doujin and MUGEN.  They understand there are some high-quality MUGEN full games, and they do not care whether the games are encrypted or not, as they aim to play not to rip stuff out of their favorite MUGEN/doujin games.
- Example groups: couldn't think of any this moment..."


"6. FTG (fighting games) die-hard fans.  With the withering state of arcade game centers, FTG becomes a hobby for a smaller group of people nowadays.  It might be the case that, even the MUGEN groups are bigger than the arcade game centers FTG groups!  If you want to play FTG like BlazBlue/Gulity Gear/Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat/...etc..., then you may not be able to find a real player to play with you at all.  For some older FTG like The Last Blade/Fist of the North Star/Eternal Fighter ZERO/...etc..., the player group is even smaller to even get found!  And MUGEN is a place where you can get all these different FTG mixed to make some dream matches.  There are even some never-seen/heard-before characters which can be used in your MUGEN.  Talk about total freedom here, for all FTG fans, for their nostalgic and/or another new experience.
- Example groups: FTG group"


"7. MUGEN veterans.  These people has long MUGEN history and are generally highly-experienced.  They have all needed MUGEN skills and know many different kinds of MUGEN information.  They even have built up their own MUGEN Circle(s) that has great MUGEN group connections.  To normal MUGEN fans these MUGEN veterans are some treasures.
- Example groups: Babylon's heroic king (?), no need to mention, and me (珂字辈) in 2014-2015"

参考人群:身体他也,Red971氏,Flandre Scarlet,以及我签名中的那位"

"8. MUGEN Collectioners.  These people just live to collect anything, everything about MUGEN, to an extend that can be called an extreme addiction.  They are willing to use any possible ways to get what they seek for their very MUGEN Collections.  They don't care whether the collected MUGEN stuff is good or bad, completed or just WIPs, legal or illegal, rare or hard-to-find, or private works.  They tend to regular at all available MUGEN discussion groups like QQ, YouTube, online bars.  They even do MUGEN stuff trading, both in public or private.  It is said that sometimes they don't welcome outsiders (?).
- Example groups: 身体他也, Red971, Flandre Scarlet, and the one in my signature (White_Reimu)"


"9. MUGEN Creators/Authors.  These people are the ones who have been working so hard to contribute to all MUGEN groups for 17+ years.  MUGEN Creators/Authors are the most important support to all MUGEN groups.  The create/convert stuff for MUGEN, be it a full maker or a partial patcher (i.e. A.I. patches).  All MUGEN Creators/Authors should be respected, without them and Elecbyte, there is no today's/future's MUGEN.
- Example groups: all MUGEN Creators/Authors"


"10. MUGEN Sprite Makers.  This group is very special that, most of them are not true MUGEN audience, yet they eventually like MUGEN, and then they want to contribute something to the MUGEN scene, by showing their spriting talents.  Most of them already have their own artwork platform(s) and are popular among the Sprite Makers groups.  They have the amazing ability to create/edit any sprites from zero to a full set for use in MUGEN making.
- Example groups: AnToR_M,tgrani"


"11. People who seek real FTG feeling in MUGEN.  These people consider MUGEN a real FTG.  Some of them want to beat the heck out of those hard/cheap MUGEN A.I., some want to play with friends via ikemen.  Some only want to try out different MUGEN characters to see the differences between the conversions and the real source games.
- Example groups: bilibili site people MUGEN video uploaders, most Western/European people at MFFA/MFG"



"12. MUGEN A.I. fans.  To them, MUGEN sole purpose is the Watch Mode for their tournaments need.  Since there are many good MUGEN A.I. patchers, that make MUGEN Watch Mode quite enjoyable.  Custom MUGEN A.I. tournaments have become a regular MUGEN activity now, yet, to people who are not familiar with MUGEN A.I. tournaments, it can be hard for them to share the same feeling/passion though.

- Example groups: MUGEN A.I. fans in China and Japan"



"13. Ferocious Lovers.  Such ferocious MUGEN works completely detach out all the traditional FTG ideas.  All of these just take advantages of some MUGEN Engine "holes", to try to win with all possible unfairness, such as instant-killing, OTHK, "mixed lines", perforation projectiles, prolonged TARGET, super instant-killing, NOKO, Root/Parent/Enemy ID hacking by NULLs, fake-death (special Statedef 5150), StateDef changes, %n, %f,...etc....generally these ferocious MUGEN works provide many epic visual/audio effects to their MUGEN fans.
- Example groups: MUGEN ferocious fans in China and Japan who love ferocious MUGEN tournaments"



"14. The King of Fighters (KOF) Lovers.  Now SNKP's works are not as glorious as in the past.  Being purchased by 37玩, the end of KOF13 greatness, the KOF14 in questions, the future of KOF does not look good, in spite of having a large amount of fans in China.  MUGEN KOF fans are far more than any MUGEN non-KOF fans.  This group KOF MUGEN fans love KOF MUGEN tournaments so much that they just do not pay attention to any other non-KOF MUGEN stuff at all.
- Example groups: MUGEN fans in China and Spain"



"15. MUGEN video makers/uploaders.  These people generally don't spend too much time on understand inner MUGEN things and are not interested in MUGEN collections.  They are specialized in video editing, MAD, imaginations engineering, organizing things, and socializing.  Some of them play MUGEN professionally, while some only focus on hit-rates and LIKES/DISLIKES.  Most of them have a bigger number of subscriptions.  And their MUGEN opinions are widely agreed.  To them, MUGEN is just a medium for them to show off their ability in attracting people.  These people tend to have little feelings towards the others.
- Example groups: omitted, as it can easily lead to flame-wars"



"16.  Doujin game lovers.  These people are not really into MUGEN at all.  Some of them even dislike fighting games.  But they only like some certain characters in MUGEN.  It is because some MUGEN characters can mean the same/different things to them.  This is the main reason of doujin game lovers to try to use MUGEN for their own doujin need.  For example, they like to make videos to show some long/short doujin stories by using certain MUGEN stuff.  They also like to collect MUGEN-related artworks.  Some even go for cosplaying some MUGEN stuff!
- Example groups: 伊洛卡尔 (?)"



"17. MUGEN Compilation Makers/Fans.  No matter it was the times of KOFZ/KOFM, or during the age of intense MUGEN tournaments, MUGEN compilations are always a part of MUGEN fans' dreams.  They want their won MUGEN compilations to look very special, unique, and professional.  Some of them are capable of making original MUGEN contents (i.e. custom screenpacks/motifs/fonts/lifebars/...etc...) to meet their own MUGEN need.  This group consists of all kinds of MUGEN Creators/Authors/Collectioners, yet, there are also some total @$$holes......
- Example groups: mugenchina,Zelgadis,infinitymugenteam,mugen_compilation baidu bar"



"18. MUGEN left-behind oldies.  During different MUGEN eras, its concepts and usages were all different among each other.  10 years ago high MUGEN A.I. was a big thing; 10 years later ferocious MUGEN A.I. was garbage in the old eyes.  (here omitting some words about China Networks....)  Some MUGEN left-behind oldies are still there, lurking around, watching things, while some have retired from their MUGEN business.  There might be a generation gap between MUGEN left-behind oldies and MUGEN new blood newbies.  The points of view in the same MUGEN issue are taken very differently, in terms of MUGEN understandings/knowledges/skills/communications/attitudes/...etc...

- Example groups: 119way, o齐天烈o (a MUGEN A.I. patcher)"



"19. Corpses/Zombies.  Corpses/Zombies were MUGEN uploaders/makers/collectioners.  Their MUGEN passion burned out completely.  MUGEN stuff does not mean anything to them any more.  They either deleted their MUGEN stuff or had it buried deep inside their computer Hard Disk Drives.  Before they became Corpses/Zombies, there might be a thin chance for them to try to finish their unfinished MUGEN jobs.  Perhaps one day they might try pay attention to MUGEN who knows.  Eventually, all of their MUGEN-related online existence go-went-gone.  It doesn't matter how big/important their names were in the MUGEN scene.  Only the archeologists are able to remember the names of these Corpses/Zombies.  They are literally called Corpses/Zombies for this reason.

- Example groups: ALL (?)"


Since the above "MUGEN group type analysis" by 珂字辈@baidu was made in the year of 2015, some points he made look kind outdated to me. Neutral
For example, MUGEN tournaments nowadays are not limited to just videos; there are now SpriteClub and SaltyBet that allows MUGEN fans to actually do betting.  tongue

And, I think 珂字辈@baidu forgot to mention a peculiar MUGEN group -- the Hentai (H-game) MUGEN group.
I try to add #20 here about the Hentai (H-game) MUGEN group Embarassed :

"20. Hentai (H-game) MUGEN group.  People like sex.  I mean, who doesn't like sex?  While there is real sex, unreal sex like Hentai (H-game) can also satisfy one's need.  Since in MUGEN you can just mix anything and customize everything, given just the necessary raw materials like sprites and sounds, then you are given the right to make anything that fits your sex taste.  Be if original or fandom.  It is all about taste.  Different people have different tastes. You can take a SF Chun-Li or a KOF Mai and takes her clothes off and make a cowman r@pe her 24/7 in your MUGEN.  Again, it is all about tastes.  It is just a matter of being showing your sex taste to the other or not.  Some love it very much while some hate it very much.
Of course, it can involve some ethical issues, depending on cultures (i.e. some p0rn and H-stuff are banned in China).
- Example groups: ALL who accept H-stuff in MUGEN"

I found I myself belong to these MUGEN groups mentions above, from time to time:
=> #1->#4/#8->#5->#9
About #5, I began to be into doujin stuff all because of my MUGEN friend, Toshio Tenma
About #6, I am into older fighting games like SFII/SFIII/MKII/SSII/KI2/GA:TD/CVS2, plus SFIV
About #7, even I started by MUGEN'ing in 2004, I don't consider myself a MUGEN veteran at all, because
I was a total lurker and a collectioner from 2004-2009
About #8, I was collecting up to 8-9 DVDs worth of MUGEN data, but all got destroyed when I rage-quitted MUGEN in later 2011...
About #9, I began my MUGEN Author (not Creator!) business in 2010, and I know many MUGEN people hate my MUGEN style to the guts...
About #10, I wish I could draw some sprites (in my dreams...)!
About #11, if I want FTG source game accuracy then I may just play the real FTG....
About #13, while some ferocious MUGEN tournaments look interesting to me, the colorful/flashy effects do hurt my poor eyes.......
About #15, I use my YouTube videos just to show my MUGEN WIPs/Releases, and to try to support (give LIKES) to my MUGEN YouTube friends like chuchoryu.  I don't/rarely give DISLIKES to YouTube videos even to those that are about e-bashing me and my MUGEN stuff, and I don't fight in YouTube Comments because I know it is useless and pointless as every YouTube channel owner can act like their Comments admins/mods.
About #18, I admire all MUGEN old-folks like the big O Ilusionista, who manages to keep up with MUGEN for THIS LONG!
About #20, while I am not against those Hentai (H-game) MUGEN group, it is very difficult for me to build an interest in those...one thing is an exception to me though -- I admit some H-artworks (i.e. 2D sprites) look really nice, only if some non-H parts could be used in MUGEN...

By the way, the source of this "MUGEN group type analysis" by 珂字辈@baidu is here Arrowhttps://tieba.baidu.com/p/4154823920?pn=1
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PostSubject: Re: MUGEN group type analysis (credit due to 珂字辈@baidu tieba)   November 4th 2017, 11:35 am

talk about a really long post very lively though
probably just what the doctor ordered

could i add point 21 to that list
which would be screw attacks analysis videos while technically not mugen they do use things from mugen characters and stages to create their little death battle video which are highly popular despite
the fact that much of their material wouldnt exist without mugen
dont know if it would fit the topic or just thought id mention it
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PostSubject: Re: MUGEN group type analysis (credit due to 珂字辈@baidu tieba)   November 9th 2017, 10:35 am

@Midnight-Son wrote:

talk about a really long post very lively though
probably just what the doctor ordered

could i add point 21 to that list
which would be screw attacks analysis videos while technically not mugen they do use things from mugen characters and stages to create their little death battle video which are highly popular despite
the fact that much of their material wouldnt exist without mugen
dont know if it would fit the topic or just thought id mention it

Popular videos making use of MUGEN materials count too! yes
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PostSubject: Re: MUGEN group type analysis (credit due to 珂字辈@baidu tieba)   November 9th 2017, 10:53 pm


I am within these group:

4. I compiled a few decent Mugen games which were pretty fun back in the dos Mugen era and some of my friends enjoy playing them. At first when I introduced Mugen to them, they find the game odd after seeing Ogre by Jun (Gouki edit) and Yasanagi by MIT (Kyo Kusanagi and Iori Yagami mixed). I told them that Mugen can have any types of crazy characters in it. That was great time back in the days. A pity that they can't play Dos Mugen game in their computer. I lost contact with them after we graduated since they were all busy with their lives. silent

8. I tried to collect all high qualities of characters back in the dos Mugen era, I stalled all of the characters in a external drive but it crashed in year 2006 due to my stupid friend giving me lame advice of degrament my external drive. I managed to redownload some of it and requested many characters from Mugen Fanatic which I helped electrocaid on his Mugen datas, but I am not sure if the chracters were the latest update before the Mugen creators removed their creations in their websites.  scratch

11. I treated Mugen like another fighting game such as able to see Kyo Kusanagi from Capcom vs. SNK 2 to challenge Ryu from SNK vs. Capcom Chaos which looks like a brand new fighting game for me. I was also hooked on trying to make Capcom vs. SNK 2 vs. SNK vs. Capcom Chaos at that time.  

19. I fall under this group after some Mugen characters keep on making my Mugen crash and those happen to be my favorite characters that I like such as Ikaruga's KOF characters. I can't find any replacement for his characters and this makes me lost interest in Mugen as I have no idea what Mugen game I want to make for myself. Even glitches makes me turn down as well such as Rei's Jedah where I have compiled a boss Mugen game and Rei's Jedah has a glitch in team turn mode, which he do kage no bunshin on himself  Still, I am looking around the Mugen communities in forum and looking at Mugen news which are not very abundant like in the past. I remember in the dos and winmugen era back in decades, I was super interested in looking forward to Mugen released chaarcters from fighting games that I am familiar with such as Jin who kept on creating interesting kof characters and GM with his high qualities of Street Fighter 3 and Garou Mark of the Wolves characters which makes me get interested in trying them out. I was actually expecting him to make more Street Fighter 3 and Garou Mark of the Wolves characters or even the entire casts like what Muteki (Guilty Gear XX's Mugen creator) and Tora (Real Bout Fatal Fury 2's Mugen creator) have done. A pity that he is not active in Mugen currently. Nowdays, there are no such feeling anymore since many great awesome Mugen creators are not very active. Despite not involving into Mugen, I have also found other interest which makes me kind of lost interest in Mugen.  

20. When I researched information about Mugen in my first discovered about Mugen in year 2001, the first website that I visited was Andrea Lopes' Mugen site. It has some naked female characters like Rainbow Mika, Mai Shiranui, Orochi Shermie etc and also edit female characters' sprites of them. I was using my computer centre and school computer's internet connection at that time, luckily no one saw it, otherwise I get into trouble. lol!

I am also in this catogory:
- Able to understand basic Mugen creations after seeing KOF Interactive Tutorial by Koopakoot (I wished there are more such tutorials especially for Capcom vs. SNK's games since my main Mugen character that I plan to make is from that game) such as able to find the Y-velocity value of the kof character and understanding some basic codings.
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