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 Character select screen (combine characters)

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luigi2088



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Join date : 2013-08-20

PostSubject: Character select screen (combine characters)   June 6th 2017, 10:14 am

Hello friends, i have a rather weird question, is it possible to combine 2 different characters into the same slot? Such as some characters who have different modes when holding start button
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Werewood

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PostSubject: Re: Character select screen (combine characters)   June 6th 2017, 12:38 pm

Yes, it is possible to include many characters in 1 slot like this Arrow :
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add the main player, using all standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #0 for stance sprites)
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add 1st first sub-player, using all non-standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #10000's for stance sprites)
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add 2nd second sub-player, using all non-standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #20000's for stance sprites)
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add 3rd third sub-player, using all non-standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #30000's for stance sprites)
-......and so on....
Then, in the MUGEN character animations file (*.air), add all the main player standard animations (i.e. [Begin Action 0] for stance animation), and add all the sub-players non-standard animations (i.e. [Begin Action 10000/20000/30000/.....and so on...] for stance animation)...
Then, in the MUGEN character commands & code files (*.cmd & *.cns), add all the main player standard commands (i.e. Palette#1 for main player and Palette#2 for 1st first sub-player and Palette#3 for 2nd second sub-player,...and so on...) and code (i.e. [Statedef 0] for main player stance code and [Statedef 10000] for 1st first sub-player and [Statedef 20000] for second sub-player, and so on.....)

It looks complicated, yet each sub-player can be made with some same copy&paste job, of course sub-player can be made totally different than one another.....it depends...........have you tried the Mortal Kombat II "MK2 Shang Tsung" mugenized by juano16?  Question juano16's "MK2 Shang Tsung" (aka main player) makes use of the above MUGEN way to let Shang Tsung be able to transform to more than 12 other MK2 characters (aka sub-players) in-game with different MUGEN input commands, just like what he can in the MK2 source game.

But, such MUGEN transformation has one (1) big flaw -- like, when juano16's "MK2 Shang Tsung" transformed to like Scorpion and when Scorpion was being thrown (i.e. being put into a MUGEN Custom State made by and given by Shang Tsung's MUGEN Enemy/Opponent), only the Shang Tsung (aka the main player)'s would be shown during so.........it happened due to a well-known MUGEN Engine's Custom State control limit.

I have seen some cool MUGEN creators/authors who try hard on a work-around for this well-known MUGEN Engine's Custom State control limit -- 1) detect the main player being put in a MUGEN Custom State by player2/player4 or not; 2) upon detection make the Shang Tsung main player invisible; 3) add a MUGEN Helper Scorpion (some even use a MUGEN Explod aka VFXs) to try its best to imitate/mimic Shang Tsung main player's get-hit states & animation, to try to make a MUGEN illusion that player2/player4 is throwing Scorpion rather than Shang Tsung..........of course the MUGEN result can never be perfect and in some MUGEN cases and sometimes it can look even uglier than the standard Shang Tsung main player's MUGEN Custom State by player2/player4...... Neutral

Simply put, you can make your MUGEN character to be able to transform to anything in-game, and the only MUGEN concern is when your MUGEN character is being thrown by his/her/its MUGEN Enemy after a transformation...... What a Face

It is from my MUGEN experience...... geek ....if there is something wrong then please feel free to correct me any time.......
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luigi2088



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PostSubject: Re: Character select screen (combine characters)   June 7th 2017, 9:01 pm

Does this method work with 2 existing characters? I want to reduce my roster
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Werewood

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PostSubject: Re: Character select screen (combine characters)   June 8th 2017, 4:23 pm

Well, you might do it just like.......hmmmmmmmmm.........have two (2) independent MUGEN characters, Ryu and Ken, and make Ryu the main MUGEN player and make Ken the MUGEN sub-player, then use either the palette-selection way or the in-game MUGEN commands way to switch between Ryu and Ken, the only MUGEN concern is whenever Ken is thrown my P2/P4, you will see Ryu get-hit sprites rather than Ken get-hit sprites unless you are to be using some imperfect MUGEN workaround like the ones I mentioned........

Again, it is from my MUGEN experience...... ....if there is something wrong then please feel free to correct me any time.......
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JackArsenal



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PostSubject: Re: Character select screen (combine characters)   September 10th 2017, 12:15 am

borewood2013 wrote:
Yes, it is possible to include many characters in 1 slot like this Arrow :
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add the main player, using all standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #0 for stance sprites)
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add 1st first sub-player, using all non-standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #10000's for stance sprites)
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add 2nd second sub-player, using all non-standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #20000's for stance sprites)
- in the MUGEN character graphics file (*.sff), add 3rd third sub-player, using all non-standard sprite set numbers (i.e. #30000's for stance sprites)
-......and so on....
Then, in the MUGEN character animations file (*.air), add all the main player standard animations (i.e. [Begin Action 0] for stance animation), and add all the sub-players non-standard animations (i.e. [Begin Action 10000/20000/30000/.....and so on...] for stance animation)...
Then, in the MUGEN character commands & code files (*.cmd & *.cns), add all the main player standard commands (i.e. Palette#1 for main player and Palette#2 for 1st first sub-player and Palette#3 for 2nd second sub-player,...and so on...) and code (i.e. [Statedef 0] for main player stance code and [Statedef 10000] for 1st first sub-player and [Statedef 20000] for second sub-player, and so on.....)


Can you explain in more detail? I'm sort of lost on what to do.
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Trololo

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PostSubject: Re: Character select screen (combine characters)   September 10th 2017, 6:07 am

I really have to butt in, Borewood, just to add in one difficult factor you missed.
-Indeed, it is possible to create 2 characters in one, and your way is correct. But don't forget: ENEMY'S CUSTOM STATES WILL USE ONLY ORIGINAL DAMAGE SPRITESET.
Here is a great example of the character Jack want to deal with: Ryu AND Ken by Asccort.


As you can see, this is Ken, who can SWITCH into Ryu and in opposite way. And they both are working just steady... Until enemy GRABS the RYU. Ken is the main here, so you won't notice anything. But Ryu... Let's just way, enemy's custom states will use only original damage spriteset...




Is there any way to fix this flaw of MUGEN? I dunno. I had one theory but it proved to be a failure. Maybe you'll do something. But until then you can NOT do complete "2-in-1" character.
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Werewood

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PostSubject: Re: Character select screen (combine characters)   September 11th 2017, 6:47 am

>> But don't forget: ENEMY'S CUSTOM STATES WILL USE ONLY ORIGINAL DAMAGE SPRITESET.
I am not forgetting about this MUGEN engine limit, I already mentioned it in my 1st first reply to this topic :

borewood2013 wrote:

But, such MUGEN transformation has one (1) big flaw -- like, when juano16's "MK2 Shang Tsung" transformed to like Scorpion and when Scorpion was being thrown (i.e. being put into a MUGEN Custom State made by and given by Shang Tsung's MUGEN Enemy/Opponent), only the Shang Tsung (aka the main player)'s would be shown during so.........it happened due to a well-known MUGEN Engine's Custom State control limit.

I have seen some cool MUGEN creators/authors who try hard on a work-around for this well-known MUGEN Engine's Custom State control limit -- 1) detect the main player being put in a MUGEN Custom State by player2/player4 or not; 2) upon detection make the Shang Tsung main player invisible; 3) add a MUGEN Helper Scorpion (some even use a MUGEN Explod aka VFXs) to try its best to imitate/mimic Shang Tsung main player's get-hit states & animation, to try to make a MUGEN illusion that player2/player4 is throwing Scorpion rather than Shang Tsung..........of course the MUGEN result can never be perfect and in some MUGEN cases and sometimes it can look even uglier than the standard Shang Tsung main player's MUGEN Custom State by player2/player4...... Neutral

Simply put, you can make your MUGEN character to be able to transform to anything in-game, and the only MUGEN concern is when your MUGEN character is being thrown by his/her/its MUGEN Enemy after a transformation...... What a Face

Long time ago in MFG/MI/IMT/MFFA/MMV I have already added this of my points to those "what do you want to have for MUGEN2.0?" MUGEN forum topics:
"if MUGEN2.0 could support multiple MUGEN SFF files then the MUGEN Custom State required sprites limit might be able to be overcome........" Arrow :
Code:

[State -2, ChangeSFF] ; an imaginary new MUGEN2.0 Controller
type = ChangeSFF
triggerall = [some new MUGEN2.0 Trigger to better detect being put into MUGEN Enemy's custom state(s)]
trigger1 = [some common MUGEN1.0to2.0 Trigger]
value = transformation2.sff
;sffversion =
;group =
;index =
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